Please,
My opinion is such that this e-mail list is a medium of exchange that can serve to contain discussions among ourselves instead of having sensitive information broadcast to those who may not understand our NEED for discussion among ourselves.
I was not able to receive the e-mail offered by Joaquin DeMoreta which began this way:
> Thank you Joe Kelley.
I was also not able to receive the e-mail response offered by John Darash that included the following very valuable information:
(1) The 4 (investigative body) investigates
(2) If the 4 find a violation of Law they write a perscription, which could include restitution.
(3) If the four are ignored they take it to the 25
(4) If the 25 conclude that the violator has wronged someone they then indict and remove the ofender from office, at this point they cannot do any more damage (they have been nutralized).
(5) The 25 should first try to enforce the perscription, if rejected then they are indicted.
(6) A trial jury is then empaneled to hear all the evidence, this is "everyone's due process, if you skip this part you become the tyrant.
(7) If the "TRIAL" jury finds them guilty then "THEY", through the arm of the court, can seize their homes, lands, possessions, and anything else, until amends shall have been made according to the sole judgment of the "TRIAL JURY". The trial jury is the extention of the "GRAND JURY" in order to complete "DUE PROCESS".
Only by random LUCK, or by the fortune of providence, or by the willful decision made by John Chimbor to respond as he did was I able to then see and utilize this vital discussion that was hidden from me.
I prefer forums:
http://www.nationallibertyalliance.org/basic-principles-revisited
Can I, in any way, encourage anyone, to allow me to cut and paste (at least) the list of 7 steps done according to our common law, cut from this bottled up e-mail, and cut to the Forum where anyone can discover that important information?
Also:
In response to this:
"Even when the government seizes property "in rem" they must first create the fiction to put you at sea and then have a proof of claim and fuduciary authority over the targeted individual and they cannot legally achieve that on American soil." John Darash being quoted here.
That is the same error made by Joaquin. If you can't see it, then you are blind to it. I can show it to you, if you care to see it, in case you do not see it.
Instead of this:
"Even when the government seizes property "in rem" they must first create the fiction to put you at sea and then have a proof of claim and fuduciary authority over the targeted individual and they cannot legally achieve that on American soil."
Instead of that, which is a false statement, the following can remove the falsehood:
"Even when the false government people seize property "in rem" they (actual people) must first (willfully) create the fiction to put you at sea and then have a proof of claim and fuduciary authority over the targeted individual and they cannot legally achieve that on American soil."
This is a vital point, and I hope that my offer to expose this vital point is not met with knee jerk reactions that constitute some form of attack upon my character, which is the rule in our time, not the exception.
Someone, a member of the whole number of people, someone employed as a judge, may be someone who is captured into falsehood, captured by the lie, captured into fiction, and the infection in his, or her mind inspires criminal action, while employed as a judge, and that same someone, in fact, is then not guilty of mind (mens rea), during that crime, while their crime does constitute a crime (actus reus) and here is where it is vitally important to remain very accurate in accounting for the facts. Someone not guilty of mind is then someone who may be encouraged to pass from a state of ignorance into a state of knowledge concerning the facts of their crimes, and at that point, in time and place, they need our help the most. This is the whole point behind the offer of remedy, or restitution, or whatever word means that we the people offer each other, as our effective defense, our peaceful solutions honestly, honorably, justly, and mercifully.
Our government is our peaceful solutions, so our government cannot seize property "in rem," no more than our government can burn babies alive in churches for our fun and our profits. Actual people perpetrate crimes. Governments cannot perpetrate crimes. Accurately accounting for who did what to who in time and place can lead to a peaceful remedy instead of escalation of even greater lies, and even greater violence.
If that above constitutes my wrongdoing then I ought to know the accurate facts, so as to afford me an effective remedy against me repeating the same mistakes.
Joe
________________________________________
From: jchimbor@earthlink.net
To: NationalLibertyAlliance-list@meetup.com
Subject: Re: [NationalLibertyAlliance] Information on Bonding and Prosecutors
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 11:45:49 -0400
I'm sorry Joaquin, I whole
heartedly agree with John
Darash.
Please be patient & post-
pone your action. Your
day will come once we win.
You can be assured of that.
John Chimbor
Seminole County Florida origanizer
----- Original Message -----
From: John Darash
To: nationallibertyalliance-list@meetup.com
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 8:26 AM
Subject: [NationalLibertyAlliance] Information on Bonding and Prosecutors
Joaquin
You are missing fundamental points, you need to read "Trial by Jury", and "Common Law" by Bret Winters to see how the jury developed over the past 800 yrs. Additionally you are looking at a time when the King was the government. America formed differently then England "we have no king" we have government by the consent of the People, whereas God is our King and our rights are inalienable to all men, not just the knights, nobles and freemen, this was the major struggle in England, you are not learning from their mistakes, America removed all titles of nobility from playing a role in our government by the people.
US Constitution Article I §9 clause 8 - No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States.
Now when you go after a servant, like a judge or some other bureaucrat they are not king but a servant. 40 hours a week they act under certain authorities, they are also one of the people the other 128 hours of the week, they are "NOT A KING" embodying the government. Therefore you cannot ignor their due process.
Bill of Rights V Amendment - No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury ... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
A trial by our peers is due process.
Bill of Rights Amendment VI - the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury ... to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Bill of Rights Amendment VII - In suits at common law the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
The American process (matured) is therefore as follows:
(1) The 4 (investigative body) investigates
(2) If the 4 find a violation of Law they write a perscription, which could include restitution.
(3) If the four are ignored they take it to the 25
(4) If the 25 conclude that the violator has wronged someone they then indict and remove the ofender from office, at this point they cannot do any more damage (they have been nutralized).
(5) The 25 should first try to enforce the perscription, if rejected then they are indicted.
(6) A trial jury is then empaneled to hear all the evidence, this is "everyone's due process, if you skip this part you become the tyrant.
(7) If the "TRIAL" jury finds them guilty then "THEY", through the arm of the court, can seize their homes, lands, possessions, and anything else, until amends shall have been made according to the sole judgment of the "TRIAL JURY". The trial jury is the extention of the "GRAND JURY" in order to complete "DUE PROCESS".
When on American soil "DUE PROCESS" trumps "UCC", you cannot seize peoples property "in rem" we are not at sea. Even when the government seizes property "in rem" they must first create the fiction to put you at sea and then have a proof of claim and fuduciary authority over the targeted individual and they cannot legally achieve that on American soil. If you do what they do then you become them. We need to get out of their sandbox.
Now is a time for patients, we need to exhaust the process to gain a seat in the court and then the first order of business is to secure the Republic, not our personal concerns. After we accomplish this then we can hear the Peoples' concerns and have the power and the authority to give People remedy.
If you continue down the path you are going the enemy will seize upon what you are doing and accredit it to the "common law grand jury movement", thereby making us look like fanatics and destroy everything we are doing.
I humbly ask you again to stop using what you learned from us combined with the fiction thereby creating some hybrid grand jury that is repunant to our Bill of Rights. Please stop.
Thank you
John Darash
(845) 233-6560
On 24 Apr 2014 at 6:36, Joaquin DeMoreta wrote:
>
> Thank you Joe Kelley.
> On 04/02/2014 CLGJ Administrators for the Saint Johns County Florida, following due process, quoting from our Magna
> Carta CLGJ Rules “PROCEDURE I Dispute Settlement If the grand jury is informed of any dispute regarding anyone who
> has been diseased or removed (by the government without a legal sentence of his peers) from his lands, castles, liberties
> or lawful right, then the dispute shall be settled by the grand jury.
> PROCEDURE II Enforcement Four of the members must be shown that because of the government,
> A. A transgression has occurred against any one in any respect, or
> B. Some one of the articles of peace or security has been broken. The four members must show to the government the
> government's error. The four members must ask the government to amend that error without delay. If the government
> does not amend the error within 40 days after being shown the error, then the four members shall refer the matter to the
> remainder of the grand jury. The grand jury may distrain and oppress the government in every way in their power,
> namely, by taking the homes, lands, possessions, and any way else they can until amends shall have been made according
> to the sole judgment of the grand jury.”
> Thanks to Bill Thornton; https://www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/grandjuryrules.htm
> We informed precisely by page, paragraph, diagram, to the State Wide CLGJ Administrators, concerning 20 crimes
> committed by elected and appointed officers against our CLGJ of Saint Johns County, Florida
>
> Now, John Darash, Hagan Smith, Rodger Dowdell, by claiming UCC, oppose strongly to file the United States Constitutional
> Criminal Complaint to Defendants and to the Authority, which could be “Misprision of Treason” right?
> United States Code Title 18 Crimes and Criminal Procedure: Chapter 115 Title: Treason, Sedition, And Subversive
> Activities.
> Section 2382 Title: Misprision of Treason: Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States and having knowledge of the
> commission of any treason against them, conceals and does not, as soon as may be, disclose and make known the same
> to the President or to some judge of the United States, or to the governor or to some judge or justice of a particular State,
> is guilty of misprision of treason and shall be fined not more than $1,000.00 under this title or imprisoned not more than
> seven years, or both.
>
>
>
> On Apr 24, 2014, at 12:01 AM, Joe Kelley wrote:
>
> The bonding angle of defense against criminals perpetrating crimes under the color of lawful prosecutors:
>
> Source:
> Linked to the Forum:
>
> http://freedom-school.com/uniform-bonding-code.pdf
>
> Quote:
> Many officials think that they can do wrong and hide behind
> the limited liability and the bond of the municipal corporation
> for which they work. They forget the real basis of their
> authority.
>
> Only when malfeasant officers have been drawn out into the
> open away from the veil of limited access to, and the limited
> liability of, the municipal corporation, can they be compelled
> to answer civilly for their antisocial behavior and be made to
> surrender their own personal property for their own unlawful
> acts.
>
> The only suits which officers of a renegade government can be
> made to answer to are publicly filed criminal complaints with civil
> value noted per title 18 USC § 241, § 242 because failure of
> prosecution would reinstate the lawful remedies of dueling and
> civil war. Therefore all prosecutors and other supporting officials
> must be bonded. A prosecutor who does not prosecute a
> malfeasant official becomes a malfeasant prosecutor, and
> thrusts the public at the bonding company.
>
> USC 241 source:
> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/241
>
> Quote:
> If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory,
> Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by
> the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or
>
> If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his
> free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured—
>
> They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts
> committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse
> or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned
> for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
>
>
> USC 242 source:
> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/242
>
> Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any
> State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities
> secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or
> penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the
> punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily
> injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or
> threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more
> than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts
> include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual
> abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both,
> or may be sentenced to death.
>
> Back to Bonding:
>
> Improper enforcements which run counter to the U.S.
> Constitution can involve as many as thirty-five (35) violations
> of the provisions of the United States Constitution valued per
> 18 USC 241 (Conspiracy against rights) at $10,000 per
> constitutional violation, per offense, per officer, per injured
> party when the officer is acting as a part of a law
> enforcement agency effort.
>
> The civil value is therefore approximately $350,000 per
> enforcement offense, per enforcement officer, per injured
> party. The statutes enabling the suit and civil claim are part
> of the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1871. (42 USC 1983, 1985,
> 1986 . . .)
>
> Back to Bonding:
>
> The unionization of the legal system by the Bar Association
> makes the people individually, and the public as a whole, a
> legal justice minority group with access to the Civil Rights
> Act of 1871 and to 42 USC 1983, 1985 and 1986.
>
> The bar association act in violation of anti-trust and anti-
> monopoly laws of the U.S.
>
> 42 USC 1983, 1985 and 1986 sources and quotes:
> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1983
>
> Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance,
> regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the
> District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected,
> any citizen of the United States or other person within the
> jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges,
> or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be
> liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or
> other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any
> action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission
> taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall
> not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or
> declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this
> section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the
> District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of
> the District of Columbia.
>
> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1985
>
> (1) Preventing officer from performing duties
> If two or more persons in any State or Territory conspire to
> prevent, by force, intimidation, or threat, any person from
> accepting or holding any office, trust, or place of confidence
> under the United States, or from discharging any duties thereof;
> or to induce by like means any officer of the United States to
> leave any State, district, or place, where his duties as an officer
> are required to be performed, or to injure him in his person or
> property on account of his lawful discharge of the duties of his
> office, or while engaged in the lawful discharge thereof, or to
> injure his property so as to molest, interrupt, hinder, or impede
> him in the discharge of his official duties;
>
> (2) Obstructing justice; intimidating party, witness, or
> juror
> If two or more persons in any State or Territory conspire to
> deter, by force, intimidation, or threat, any party or witness in
> any court of the United States from attending such court, or from
> testifying to any matter pending therein, freely, fully, and
> truthfully, or to injure such party or witness in his person or
> property on account of his having so attended or testified, or to
> influence the verdict, presentment, or indictment of any grand or
> petit juror in any such court, or to injure such juror in his person
> or property on account of any verdict, presentment, or indictment
> lawfully assented to by him, or of his being or having been such
> juror; or if two or more persons conspire for the purpose of
> impeding, hindering, obstructing, or defeating, in any manner,
> the due course of justice in any State or Territory, with intent to
> deny to any citizen the equal protection of the laws, or to injure
> him or his property for lawfully enforcing, or attempting to
> enforce, the right of any person, or class of persons, to the equal
> protection of the laws;
>
> (3) Depriving persons of rights or privileges
> If two or more persons in any State or Territory conspire or go in
> disguise on the highway or on the premises of another, for the
> purpose of depriving, either directly or indirectly, any person or
> class of persons of the equal protection of the laws, or of equal
> privileges and immunities under the laws; or for the purpose of
> preventing or hindering the constituted authorities of any State
> or Territory from giving or securing to all persons within such
> State or Territory the equal protection of the laws; or if two or
> more persons conspire to prevent by force, intimidation, or
> threat, any citizen who is lawfully entitled to vote, from giving his
> support or advocacy in a legal manner, toward or in favor of the
> election of any lawfully qualified person as an elector for
> President or Vice President, or as a Member of Congress of the
> United States; or to injure any citizen in person or property on
> account of such support or advocacy; in any case of conspiracy
> set forth in this section, if one or more persons engaged therein
> do, or cause to be done, any act in furtherance of the object of
> such conspiracy, whereby another is injured in his person or
> property, or deprived of having and exercising any right or
> privilege of a citizen of the United States, the party so injured or
> deprived may have an action for the recovery of damages
> occasioned by such injury or deprivation, against any one or
> more of the conspirators.
>
>
> Back to Bonding:
>
> Government officials maintain control of the courts by
> “licensing lawyers” and by forbidding the common citizens to
> “practice law” or give “legal advice,” three phrases which
> have never been adequately defined for any statute. To
> protect government dominance, “law schools” are the only
> schools allowed to teach law, and specifically “safe law”
> (attornment). To protect malfeasance, attorneys are
> forbidden to file criminal complaints against malfeasance
> officials, officer and clerks and against officers of other
> corporations. If they disobey, they lose their “license to
> practice law.” Similarly, when the citizen files a criminal
> complaint against a public official, the prosecutor is
> expected to protect the public official from prosecution for
> official malfeasance by exercising some mystical doctrine of
> “selective prosecution” (an act of misprision of crime) which
> is nothing more or less than an excuse for legal prejudice to
> issue from the prosecutor’s office calculated to overthrow the
> public’s legal redress against official malfeasance.
>
> Back to Bonding:
>
> The court rules, jurisdiction, and the processes of
> consideration of affidavits and other filings, litigation, and
> prosecution will be bonded only if the bonding company
> finds that:
> 11.
> No party to the case, nor the court, has been allowed to use
> the U.S. mail to "serve" papers which are required by law to
> be "served," not "sent." A
> U.S. postal carrier is not employed and bonded as a witness,
> hence is not a lawful. legal process server.
> Back to Bonding:
>
> A citizens recourse against official crimes is to file his claim in the form of a
> criminal complaint/U.S. First amendment petition for redress of grievances
> with a civil value noted on the complaint, but with the U.S. 7th amendment
> process on hold as not immediately answerable, and with the civil value
> pending the outcome of the U.S. 6th amendment
>
> Joe here, it is a week away from the Monday Meetup call, and I can't get much said on
> those calls anyway. The criminals know who butters their bread?
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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> This message was sent by Joe Kelley (josf.kelley@hotmail.com) from National Liberty Alliance.
> To learn more about Joe Kelley, visit his/her member profile
> To report this message or block the sender, please click here
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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> This message was sent by Joaquin DeMoreta (joaquin@eternalrefuge.com) from National Liberty Alliance.
> To learn more about Joaquin DeMoreta, visit his/her member profile
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http://NationalLibertyAlliance.org the only legal peaceful solution to restore our Republic.
“We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by
the majority that participate” Thomas Jefferson
“All that's necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.” - Edmund Burke
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